Anonymous Iran

Unregistered

Protesters initiating violence does not aid the cause. It makes the supporters of the revolution look bad everywhere. The regime likes nothing better than this. It reinforces their claims that the protesters have been the instigators of the violence, and at the same time alienates many supporters of the cause who don't want to be likened to these sort of tactics.

Terrorism is terrorism, no matter which side you're on. You think the regime doesn't truly believe they're doing what's right? If it's ok for us to initiate violence for our cause because we believe we're right, who are we to tell others they cannot do the same?

The biggest problem of all, whether you agree with me or not, is that the regime will win a violent confrontation time and again, whether here or there. It is an exercise in futility in my opinion, and does nothing to benefit the cause.

I believe there are much more effective, albeit slower, ways to harm the regime. The key is sheer numbers and organization, with an effective proven tactical approaches. Flying in with fists and feet flying is self serving and detrimental to the cause.

Visionary

I agree that acts of vandalism and blowing things up are not helpful.

Although I think this sort of thing is bound to happen in small cases, with the amount of frustration people everywhere are feeling.

As for what those in the regime believe...I am sure that some of them believe they are doing the right thing...but I am not so certain that all of them do. Especially when they go out of their way to lie and distort the truth. Often times people do these things even when they know they are wrong, because they have come to love power too much to care.

Also about violence in general...I agree...but I think the argument could be made that without some sort of threat to the regime, the people will never win.

This is not a democracy where people can leverage the sympathy of the populace to use as a political weapon to threaten the power of an elected leader.

There are two ways that Khamenei's regime can be brought down, that I see. One is possibly through the group that Rafsanjani is supposedly talking to (but who knows what is really going on there). The other is to either show enough strength of force: A. that he will fear for his life and flee, or B. to be able to somehow arrest him and his main followers.
(and these would all undoubtedly lead to violence by his supporters as well)

Hope this doesn't sidetrack too much...but what the heck.
It's a slow news day and there aren't a lot of people on here anyway. Also I've been thinking about this a lot.

(if anyone wants to move this though, feel free)

Unregistered

From the 25:th.

Millions of pounds in private wealth has begun flooding out of Iran in the wake of mass demonstrations which have paralysed commercial life after the disputed re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Money floods out of Iran as election crisis continues - Telegraph

"Fears of a new round of crippling sanctions are also thought to have fuelled the movement of money out of the country.
Western intelligence agencies have reported that prominent private businesses and wealthy families have moved tens of millions of dollars out of Iranian banks into overseas accounts.

The Italian foreign intelligence service is said to have detected multiple transactions, each of up to $10 million dollars, by Iran's big four banks on behalf of Iranian families seeking a safe haven for funds.
Iran has already been hit by three rounds of financial sanctions from the UN over its nuclear programme, which have limited its access to international finance and world trade
A spokesman for HM Treasury hinted that further action could be taken, particularly in relation to Mojbata Khamenei, the powerful son of Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, who runs his father's office.
"We do not have this person on the sanctions list and while we do put people on the list on human rights grounds we do it very much in conjunction with the EU and the UN," the spokesman said.
"We can be very aggressive in pushing within those bodies, though I'm not saying we're doing so in this case."
It came as one of Iran's leading foreign investors, the Austrian oil and gas firm OMV, said it would not invest any more money in a large offshore gas project and gave warning that it would pull out of the country if Iran demanded more cash.
Helmut Langanger, its Iran representative, said the political environment would have to improve before it put any move money into the giant South Pars offshore gas field.
"They are proceeding with the project on their own without us," he said.
In the US, Republican congressman Mark Kirk has claimed there is growing support for a bill he is sponsoring which would strip American support for foreign companies supplying refined petroleum to Iran.
Iran is a large oil producer but decades of financial isolation means it must import petrol and other end products from abroad.
Reliance, the Indian operator, provides one-third of Iran's daily needs while also enjoying a massive trade loan from the US.
Another bill that would exclude companies involved in the trade from doing business in the US was put on hold earlier this year as a gesture from President Barack Obama to improve relations.
The fallout from the pro-democracy demonstrations is expected to embroil Iran and the Gulf in a new cycle of instability.
Sami Alfaraj, a leading Gulf expert, warned Iran was unpredictable and that meant the stability of the oil-rich region was in the balance.
"Iran could launch foreign attacks," the director of the Kuwait Centre for Strategic Studies said. "It could disrupt the shipping lanes of the Gulf, drive up the cost of doing business, use its cells in Egypt and Iraq or Jordan to create havoc, trigger a new confrontation with Israel. All these options would have an economic impact. We have all reached an affinity of threat from Iran."
The leading contender in the rigged presidential election, Mir-Hossein Mousavi has targeted the influential business class by calling on merchants to close their businesses. Tehran's bazaar, which covers two square miles and plays an economic role similar to the City of London, is mostly closed but some shops have opened."

Visionary

niacINsight

Hechicera

I saw these link early today when they popped up on the "Most E-Mailed" list.

Now, they are buried, and there is no English most e-mailed tab anymore.

'Rafsanjani, Mousavi vow support to end unrest'

Mousavi: Gov't misrepresented state of affairs

That was before prayers. So, in events after these went up, the prayers calling for death to protesters happened and Kalemeh's website is shut down. And those stories get buried fast, but not taken down.

Anyone else get the feeling that elephants are rumbling somewhere out of sight and all we see is our room shaking? Add these links to the money leaving links. Compute.

Jeff Barea

What was that about moving my comments because commentary does not belong in a news thread?

Jeff Barea

Unlike Visionary, I read history. Even the "velvet revolutions" were violent at times. Ah, how we like to romanticize history and forget reality.

But, in this instance, I agree with you that it is in its infancy and violence is not required at this point.

Remember my admonishments that in public there are no leaders. No phone calls coordinating activities. Someone suggested carrier pigeons.

Our own used lanterns in lighthouses.

They think high tech is how it's being done, so go low tech. Notes in lockers. Adopt an Iran speak that they will not understand. Say "Hi the weather is nice" when you mean Hi=Meet the=at weather=location is=for nice= 10 minutes of silent protest.

Capture the vids and disperse before they arrive. Upload and we will keep alive for the world your efforts.

Regime will go batshit and be pissed at its own gun pirates. Opposition will point and say regime is ineffective. Many ways to get the word out boys and girls.

Jeff Barea

Why the fuck you geeks didn't understand that you have to fight with every historical method is beyond me, but I'm stepping now to help the brave and glorious Iranian peoples.

Visionary

(I have lengthier comments under the spoilers.)I'm...not sure what you're referring to.

As for this...you lost me.
I don't know why you would say this.

Unregistered

seems like ppl are getting antsy from the lack of updates, chill dudes, and stay on target