"Das System Scientology"

Discussion in 'Translation and Text Composition Projects' started by indeedindeed, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    By the way, the problem with the zip file is the use of the quotation marks " in the file name. Windows doesn't allow these as characters, but Mac OSX and Unix may, which is where we're getting problems.
  2. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Some of these could be rewritten for better flow, but it seems OK for the time being. I am not100% confident about the last paragraph with the translations of the various acronyms. CRIMINON doesn't even seem to be an acronym, their website says it means "no crime".
  3. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I have a translator note in there. It would be nice to find the original quotes for the insets.
  4. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    same proceeding as before, again italics mark the parts of text to which comments refer to. About the second chunk pertaining to sections 2.) and 3.)

    maybe artificial term instead, because "technical term" is -afaik- something like "professional term" or "strongly context dependent term", while "Kunstwort" is an invented, made up, artificial word.

    disagreement to "the". "eine "Lehre vom Wissen"" is "a theory of knowledge" ("a theory of knowing" would be another possibility), knowledge in general not a specific knowledge. Grammatically "the" is included (vom). Also imho it's not meant as a direct translation/explanation of meaning, but as an explanation of what it supposedly is, what category it supposedly belongs to. maybe: " It is meant to be a "theory of knowledge". "

    for the same reasons as before I prefer "artificial word".

    I think a "he" is missing.

    I don't know how it may be changed, but "Versatzstücke" is a negative term refering to the method of taking only parts (often out of context, often intended only to serve one's purposes and not true to the original) of other people's creations. So -according to the text- he didn't base his teachings on Freud, but he took elements from Freud in a way that at least may be considered suspect, and together with other works he started his own stuff. If one was to formulate in a neutral fashion, maybe: "From parts of these teachings and other psychological concepts..."

    I don't know whether it has any "lingoflow" in english, but in the original it says "eine technische Ideologie", so: "Scientology is a technical ideology..."
    I think "Hubbard himself" is closer to "Hubbard selbst", as it's meant to prove the point by word from the man himself.

    First a specific point then about the structure. At the end there is an alternative proposal, which is based on the previous remarks.

    specific point: "Scientology was involved", I think "was still involved" to reflect "Auch nach dem Tod Hubbards". But maybe this needs to be replaced by something else anyway, see next point.


    Several points pertaining to structure here. First, I think democratic societies is more accurate than democratic order, because it says "Gesellschaften".
    "such as court proceedings in the USA, Spain, Greece, Italy, Germany and other countries demonstrate." or something similar to reflect "zeigen", then "such" may not be necessary. Also, the "conflict" part does not specify the type of criminal activities, but the sales methods and criminal activity signify the conflict. I'll just try to translate how I understand it:

    I think "auftreten" is not "presenting itself" in this case -which isn't really possible in a hidden manner imho-, but more something along the lines of "getting active"/"its existence makes itself known to others by:". More akin to occur/appear. But it's possible that "present" has a second meaning as well. I don't know if "appear" would do the trick here. It's not so important anyway.

    small typo "immediately". Maybe also "are immediately recognizable as", as it is about the ability to recognize them ("erkennbar").

    This is in the singular form in the original, so maybe: "are subjected to a rigid system of control and discipline that follows..." I also believe "instruction" is too weak an expression for "Befehl", which is an order, contrary to "Anweisung", which would be instruction. So maybe: "...the principles of order and absolute obedience" or "the principle of orders and absolute obedience".

    small typo: warfare.
  5. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I'll incorporate your suggestions into the posts tomorrow. It's getting very late so I'm not up for grammar and all that nasty stuff. I've been working on a layout for this document in Indesign, check out the attached zip. I will halt working on the Indesign until the translation is spot-on, because it's already becoming a chore working out what is the "current" version. (You may notice I already made alterations to the text in the PDF.)

    I hope it is bouying to see how this can look when we've completed this effort. It's going to be awesome!
  6. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Wow, this looks GREAT!
    Take your time with regards to proposals for change, no need to hurry. I'll just continue with the commenting posts based on your posts here and you can then decide what to use and what to discard. But, seriously, it really looks awesome already.
  7. TrevAnon Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Thanks for this advice! I am rather new in Linux (using it for 6 months now), and I didn't know this.
  8. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    same proceeding as before, again italics mark the parts of text to which comments refer to. About the third chunk pertaining to questions 4.) to 6.)

    I think there's a need for "Emigrationszeit", maybe like this:

    "who was with Hubbard while he was on the ship “Apollo” druing his time in emigration"

    not sure, but maybe "emerged" is better.

    no, because what disappeared according to the document was not his will, but his appointed succesors. my proposal, which is correct with regards to content, but not necessarily with regards to style, grammar, etc:

    "Nicht jeder" translates to "Not everyone", also counted isn't correct, because it's about being a Scientologist. So something akin to

    "Not everyone who has taken a course of Scientology is a Scientologist [just] because of that" or more liberally translated "Taking a course in Scientology does not make one a Scientologist".

    "The upper limit... is probably at 125,000", because I think "dürfte" means in this context that it's pretty sure, but not entirely.

    "Angenommen" isn't "accepted" here, but "assumed".

    "Gleichgesinnte" doesn't translate to "compatriot", but to "like minded people".

    It does not refer to the people, but what this phenomenon is called. so maybe "and one speaks of “Hubbardism”."
    Also, "furthermore" isn't in the original, it goes more like "When management coaches use... thus approving L. Ron Hubbard's ideas and ideology... they are called... and one speaks of “Hubbardism”."

    small typo: pursue

    The final part is missing here "und Kritiker leichter abzuwehren", maybe: "and to fend off critics more easily"

    I think "auftreten" means a way of acting, so either "act as" or "appear as". Rather appear than act though. Of course the actual quotes would be better.

    "harassed" is probably too strong for "überzogen". "flooded" is probably more accurate.

    don't know whether this word exists or if it's a typo for "ideological".

    idealogical: same as before. "Weimar Reichsverfassung", maybe "Weimar's Reich constitution", but not sure whether this works.

    not sure if this can be said, if a different word than "concern" is needed or if i simply didn't know this expression before.

    Don't know as a specific document is referenced by "das Scientology-Gutachten". Maybe "the appraisal of Scientology"?
    "idealogical" as before.
  9. TrevAnon Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    :woot: GREAT work guys!! This looks really fabulous. :flowers:
  10. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    More work, I've done up to Question 12. I've proof-read these ones too, so hopefully it requires a lot fewer alterations.

  11. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    same proceeding as before, again italics mark the parts of text to which comments refer to. refering to the previous part up until end of p.15 of the original. Rest of remarks to follow soon. It's really of a great quality, hardly anything to be found and most of the time it's rather small things.

    disagreement, because it states that it only appears positive at first - thereby stressing that it's negative already in this part. So, more something akin to "From this statement which only at first glance appears as positive, it is possible to see the true face of Scientology." or something similar.

    small typo: "." is missing. It's probably not big, but I don't think "aufhalsen" is translated with "to help". One dictionary gives it as "to saddle oneself with something". Don't know how common it is or whether it's a big deal.

    small typo: transformed

    Zwangsarbeit is stronger than hard labor, it's "forced labor" even.

    not really big, but the "ähnlich" is referring to the harshness of methods and not that this point is similar to the one before, so the colon may be skipped. If "jugendliche" is translated verbatim, it's "youths", but not very important, I guess and young people isn't wrong.

    not a big point and no alternative proposal. i'm not sure about this expression. don't know whether it's correct for "dass sie einen Alleinherrschaftsaspruch verfolgen", it's something like "they act according to a claim to solely execute power" with regards to content.

    I think the part "Umformung" is missing here. So maybe more like this: "who will be subjected to a transformation according to Hubbard's technology" instead, or something similar.

    maybe small typo, don't know english language rules good enough to finally judge: small "s"

    small typo: Norbert

    small typo: two "."

    point of medium importance: "Geistwesen" rather translates to "spirit being", if this may be said in english. In any case "wesen" means being and instead of nature this suggest something that is alive or an independent entity. maybe "entity of spirit", but that may sound to esoteric. Don't know what to do about it, but it may be a good idea to somehow get the concept of a "being" in there.

    like before, if the nature of the Thetan is a being is introduced before, it's more consistent with the next paragraph of the thetan inhabiting a body.

    I think it's "abberated".

    I think, it's rather "Abberrees" or "abberated people". "Apostate" also is a problem, because non-Scientologists weren't Scientologists before. With regards to "Non-Scientologists": Practically it follows, but from the appearance of the original the direct reference of "diese" seem to be "Abberierte". So at this place maybe use the translation you want to use for "Abberierte", with regards to this see previous sentence.
  12. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    continuation until the end of chapter 9. rest of the remarks to follow.

    maybe "doesn't have" instead? Or "does not posess"

    "Dressur" is something else that is done to animals in a circus. A dictionary gives it as "conditioning", but this would be confusing, for these exercises aren't merely similar to conditioningm but are conditioning themself. So maybe "The endless repetitions of certain exercises have similartity with animal conditioning" instead. Strangely it sounds harsher than in the original, but it has the same meaning as "Dressur".

    several points here, at the end of this segment, I'll put up an alternative proposal. "warten" is no english word. Wartung=maintenance, so warten=maintain in a technical sense. The green parts belong together. Also, there are auditors (plural), not a singfle auditor and the part "durch ihre Verhöre" (by their interrogations) is missing. Also, "its engrams" instead of "engrams". I don't know, whether it can be done, but allegedly isn't referring to "delete" -which needs to be set in quotation marks as well- but to engrams. "the customer in the scientological technology laboratory" instead of "the customer". "i.e." serves as an explanation for the definition of engrams, not of what is happening. I'm also not sure about "without regard to", I think it's "without regards for", but not entirely sure.

    So, here's my alternative proposal:

    I think it's rather "a natural basis for humane behaviour"

    not sure, maybe a colon is missing between "scale" and "which".

    rather "to reach the final goal of the highest level “OT” "

    not sure, maybe "is to be achieved", because it's not regarded as a fact, but rather as a claim.

    I suggest to skip the "and onward" part, because it's not in the original.

    I think, there's some grammar problem in here. Those who... and will incur... So, I suggest to skip the word "and".

    Rücksichtslos is rather "recklessly" instead.

    maybe "is therefore very rarely based" instead, because of "daher".
  13. Mouseyhair Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Just a flyby to say, you guys fucking rock for translating this. I have the book at home, but I'm the only anon here who can read German.

    This is one of the VERY best sources of general information about the cult. Everyone should read it.
  14. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    continuation, now including questions 10-12

    not sure, whether it should be corrected and don't know whether it sounds good in english. Maybe "most relevant" instead, but not sure.

    rather "and to make them “function” for the system", because Funktionieren is referring to the people not the system, it's used as the purpose of their functioning here.

    not sure. "soziales Fehlverhalten" is rather "social misbehaviour" or maybe "failure in interaction", not sure what failur of interaction means, but if it means that there's no interaction than it's different from the original.

    first, I think it's rather "interrogation-like", because Verhör=interrogation. Second, this sentence doesn't state that the auditor writes something down which is called minutes, but rather that the negative experiences of the pc are "written down" on the timeline, the time-track concept. I also think, "desires" is to strong a translation for "Vorlieben", which is more similar to "preferences". So, alternative proposal, not optimal either, but closer to original imho:

    I think this is too strong a translation for "um ihm... zu erleichtern". Maybe rather "to make it easier for him to “confess”"

    questions 11 and 12:

    Maybe rather "Already by 1888", because of "Schon 1888"

    purely formal, not important: "causes the change in skin resistance"

    I'm not sure about the use of "is limited to", but I always understood it as "it only refers to the following" and if it's this, then it needs to be changed. The original statement is that it has only limited use in such sessions and not that it's only useful in such sessions. So, if I'm correct, it should rather be "their use in sessions, in which the cross-examined does not want to reveal himself, is limited".

    no. "but also as a genuine "lie-detector", not instead of a lie-detector. It seems the author of this text is very skeptical of the functionality of the concept of lie-detectors, but accepts that an e-meter is being used as a genuine lie-detector. That's why he put "lie-detector" in quotation marks.

    Disagreement, because in the original these describe the conditions under which these tests are taking place, but not what is being tested. That's why the "if" is misplaced imho. Also it may be part of a test, but the original describes it as the way the test is conducted. I also think, there's an "of" missing in the second part. Also, "have been" is the german equivalent to "are being" in the original. Alternative proposal:

    I think "memory training" means to train one's memory, how good one can remember things. Dressur on the other hand in german means behaviour conditioning of animals, sometimes also of humans. So I suggest "behaviour conditioning" instead. Also fits better to the next sentence.

    Not completely wrong, but in the original it says "System", which would be "system".

    Not necessarily wrong, I don't know how much this is scieno-speak for leaving or generally used in english. The german term "Aussteiger" may be translated as "people who have left Scientology". The meaning is certainly the same, there's just no Scientologeese in the original. Also, there's no talk of "auditing" in the original. Instead of "auditing sessions" it simply says "interrogations" ("Verhöre").

    In the original it says "Verhör", which simply means "interrogation". It's also the goal and not just a goal according to the original, which is referring to a specific type of auditing sessions here.

    probably not important, but in the original it says "Scientology Organisation (SO)", because Verfassungsschutz often uses this abbreviation for Scientology.

    disagreement, because the original statemnt is that one learns it soon, if not anytime before then upon reaching Clear and not that there are different stages of Clear and at the later ones of those one learns about it. So, alternative proposal:

    not important, only formal and maybe it's better the way it is. In the original it says "OT=“Operating Thetan”"

    in the original it states something like "supposedly ruler of...". Not a big thing.

    In the original Xenu is doing this to humans who were then "as thetans" brought to earth. proposal: "by drugging, billions of humans, subsequently killing them and bringing them to earth as “thetans”"

    "the" instead of "a", because this is referring to our present, modern civilization. Also grammar problem, can be solved as in the original this way: "they were then to commit planetary suicide", because subjects of the sentence are the thetans. Don't know about the usage of "then" in the proposal, "afterwards" may be used instead maybe at the end of the sentence, because "dann" in the original describes something happening afterwards.

    rather: "which supposedly continues", because of "andauere".

    In the original it's not about "acting as a religion", but about being a religion, so maybe "is", "would be" or "was" instead.

    disagreement, because "locken" is not to lock, but to lure. So "lure" instead of "lock".

    proposal: "Hubbard himself" instead, because at this point the author tries to convey, that Hubbard knew fully well what he was doing and that's why it says "selbst offengelegt"

    Looks a bit crammed, proposal: "to produce unusual experiences for the test subject, which is in a condition of changed waking consciousness,"

    Two points: Small typo with missing "c", so it's "psycho-techniques" instead. The other thing is that I don't know whether the other part which is marked in italics can be said and whether it does mean the same in the original. Therefore, I'll write here, what's the meaning of the original: Regardless of any faith such experiences may be induced/produced in many people by means of certain psycho-techniques (examples). If it's the same, then there's no need to change it.

    not important and probably nothing to be changed here, just wanna state that in the original part translated with "which obviously occurs within Scientology" the word for which is referring to both cases -excessive usage as well as punishment- I think it's the same here, if not, some change may be a good idea, but it's not big in any case.
  15. Slippery Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Seconded. I keep coming back to this thread to check how it's going: I no speak Deutche, but really want to get access to this document. Will be sehr useful (or something ;) ).
  16. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Thank you so much indeedindeed. You're doing a much more important job than me; you're putting this translation beyond reproach as a trustworthy and accurate translation.

    I have updated the post with the alterations I think are proper. Exceptions include the "failure of interaction" which I changed to "social failure" and a few slight alterations to make it flow better.

    Work has begun on Question 13. I've been lazy for the last week, slap on the wrist. Thank you Mouseyhair and Slippery for your words of support. If you're knowledgeable in the field of Scientology, you could proofread some of the lingo and quotations to make sure we're on the mark with the words they use, and possibly help with finding original words of the now twice-translated quotations.
  17. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    thanks, I think both of our jobs are important and both improve the result's quality and you've really recognized the importance of this translation, which I didn't as I thought along the lines of: "But there's nothing in there which we wouldn't know already", but it's an interesting sort of text: Concise, yet detailed to some extent and with an official aura.
    I've had a lazy last week too. Thanks for incorporating the suggestions that you regard as good ones. Also, thanks to Mouseyhair and Slippery.
    Original quotes are always a problem with this sort of work. This is also a big problem for the Verfassungsschutz-AG report. BTW, I'll continue my work there soon, going over my parts and adding to the list of sources.
    I guess I'll go over questions 11 and 12 tomorrow, in the same post as question 10.
    update: done now.
  18. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I swear it's coming along! I would really like to set myself a timetable for this stuff. Maybe a new chapter every two days? I think that sounds pretty good.
  19. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I really should respond to, explain and justify my adoption/rejection of your alterations, because I really don't want my side of things to be black-box either. So here goes for the most recent set. I might do this for some of the more difficult bits from previous ones as well, just so I can justify why I am doing it. Typically if I am silent on something, I've just accepted your explanation and proposal.

    Orig -> Yours -> Mine

    "pursues a requirement for autocracy" -> "they act according to a claim to solely execute power" -> "acts according to a claimed sole right to execute power"
    Changed for flow, mainly. the meaning does not change.

    "spirit nature" -> "spirit being" -> "spirit being"
    While I really wish I could have just gone with "spirit" here, because that's how you would call the immaterial supernatural component of a human. (eg "His spirit has left his body") I've gone with your suggests spirit being because "spirit of the self" could also allude to a 'sense of individuality', rather than the ghost inside of you.

    apostate -> abberated person -> abberated person
    I still feel that Scilons call them apostates, but a Sci lingo expert might have to proof read this when we have finalised a draft of it.

    military routine -> animal conditioning -> animal conditioning
    You're right that it sounds harsh, but I guess this is the reality the writer was going for.

    warten paragraph[i/]
    I have adopted your paragraph entirely. I also kept warten in there because I didn't know how to use it. Thanks for picking it up.

    blown -> have left -> have left
    Blown is a Scilon word, but the public probably won't know what it means.

    Scientology Organisation (SO)
    While I know that it's what they do in the document, in English it's only common practice to give an abbreviation the first time a word is used and then use the abbreviation every time after that. They seem not to do so here, preferring the full version quite often. After we have translated the bulk of this work, I'll generate some style guidelines (for things like: English locali[s/z]ation; endnoting; abbreviations like ie, eg, etc, etc; when and how often to abbreviate SO
    (eg, per question, per page etc?); how to notify when we've made a translator's comment. Then I'll go back and edit them and make sure it all matches and look spick and span :)

    which obviously occurs -> which obviously occur -> which both obviously occur
    Changed to highlight that both of these things occur.

    Thanks for all the proposals. Hard work is being carried out on Question 13, which seems like it's been written by a different author because the phrasing is doing my head in! Almost done though.
  20. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Question 14 incoming sar!
  21. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    same proceeding as before, again italics mark the parts of text to which comments refer to. concerns question 13, including my take on the translation of the list of basic human needs.

    it's put a little different in the original, it's more like "neither less educated, nor people with a university degree", not very important, it just doesn't call some people poorly educated, it's a little difference in style.

    not a big thing, it's more like "as a result of being approached on the street", but I think it's pretty clear this is meant, when "contact" is being used, that this refers to a targeted contact.

    rather "to exploit points subjectively regarded as weak" or similar, because what's subjective in the sentence is the assessment of something being a weak point, not the exploitation.

    I think rather "seemingly" than apparently and also rather "part of this are beginner courses for all situations in life", because these courses are called a part of the "life improvement program" in the original.

    A remark: I'm not sure about thereby, because it's more similar to "dadurch" than to "dabei". I think "Dabei" in this context means something like: "In doing so", "While doing so", or rather "The following is part of the way they do it". Don't know how to really put it, but it's rather a description of how it's done than a description of a desired consequence. But I have no alternative proposition.
    With regards to the list, here's my take on it:

    explanation for this list: affection, because Zuneigung is more than acceptance, but actually being liked/loved by others, contacts as a plural, because it's plural in the original, freedom from fear, because I think assuredness means something like basic self-confidence, while "Angstfreiheit" means one doesn't have to be determined by fears. If you're self-assured, you're probably free from fear, but if you're free from fear you can still be not self-assured. But it's possible I misunderstand the meaning of assuredness. "Explanatory patterns", because "Erklärungsmuster" are structures which are helpful to understand things.

    I'm not sure how this word is used in this context, but if it's the same as "gives the impression" it's certainly ok.
    If -second part- this means the same as "and also the removal of behaviours in business, partnerships and social circles, which are resulting from these" it's certainly ok.

    no, rather "in the choice of their behaviour towards the customer", because of "in ihrem Verhalten gegenüber dem Kunden".

    I don't think so, because this sentence is about what the customer has to expect or to reckon with and not what he can be reckoned with, so what's described in this sentence after "initiated" is really the center of the message here. There's also a need for a "therefore", because of the "daher". So, proposal, doesn't sound too good:

    Several smaller points not that important, but in the original it doesn't explicitly state that this is the purpose, it's a description of what's happening. Also, a smaller grammatical change, so new proposal here:

    "Streneous sauna visits, recommended for “detoxification” of the body after the introductory course, make the customer..."

    I'm also not sure about "their" because this is plural and before it was "the customer", so maybe "his" instead?

    "can not" or alternatively "without proper information, it's often unrecognizable to the customer, that..."
    Also "management principles"/"principles of management" instead of just "principles", because it's "Managementgrundsätzen" in the original (grundsätze=principals/basics).

    probably not important proposal and maybe worse than now: "an" instead, at least in the original it's the indefinite article

    not sure. if it's the same as "personell manager" it's ok.

    a remark: In german "Fortbildungskurse" is a word normally used for something genuine, so it's supposed to sound harmless/normal. If this is the same with "skill enhancement courses" or if it doesn't sound strange by itself in english, then it's ok.

    maybe, maybe "according to" instead. Depends on what's normal usage in english.

    several points, at the end there's a proposal for a new version including all of them.
    first part: Hard to translate, maybe "control techniques partially in violation of human dignity", in any case it's important to mention human dignity here, as it's the thing which is violated according to the original.
    second part: "the obligation for co-workers to..." instead, no "with which", this is the next item in the list of indications.
    thirs part (underlined): This is quite different from the original. In the original it's mentioned here that knowledge reports on co-workers are sent to the highest levels of the company for the purpose of denounciation, so proposal: "to write “Knowledge reports” on colleagues for the purpose of denounciation, which are to be sent to the top of the company."

    proposal for new version:

  22. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    same proceeding as before, again italics mark the parts of text to which comments refer to. on question 14

    maybe better "captures the psychological... techniques only insufficiently, with which..." if this works gramatically. "Only" added because of "nur". Also, see next sentence.

    "In fact, the SO commands..." because this sentence is referring to the "only" of the last sentence as in "this is insufficient, because the SO actually commands..."

    better: "currently only Sea Org members" because of "derzeit".

    Rather something like -dont know whether it sounds right-: "for whom a fictitious confession or a complete reversal of political beliefs is intended; often this intend succeeds." Important here is only, that there are actually two parts: The intention and that it often succeeds.

    I'm not sure about "indecision", because the original talks about a state where one has lost his willpower. maybe "loss of willpower" instead, but I don't know.

    In the original it reads "question 22 (the case of Wollersheim)". Not much of a difference, but these two items aren't separated in the original, the second is an explanation of the first.

    maybe rather: "techniques, which are reminiscent of the procedures of brainwashing are also used outside of the penitentiaries", the important point here is the word "also", they are used inside as well, the author only found it remarkable that they were also used outside.

    I think an "a" is missing: a new customer

    This isn't the translation of "freilich" in this context. I think "yet" hits home closer.

    this is quite different from the original. The original is about finding partially known terms, which are then interpreted in a Scientologic sense, so proposal:

    "so that the customer finds partially familiar terms, which are now interpreted in a Scientologic sense."

    I'd skip "a few", because the original doesn't state how many minutes.

    A part from the original is missing here: "...exerted by the SO upon the individual by means of the "Ethics" system, play an important role..."

    maybe a "top manager" even, don't know.

    in the original it says: "to fundamentally reject this Scientologic procedure"

    no, rather "if in this mental state"

    maybe. I'll just write how I understand the original passage: ...people are brought to ideas they wouldn't normally have. They aren't directly forced, more like directed. Don't know whether it's a problem and how it could be changed in case it is.

    rather: "be drawn into a sort of drug-related crime." because he isn't talking about actual drug related crimes, but comparing auditing etc. to drugs.

    Other way around: "Only this can account for"

    not important, but maybe rather "by now", because they are stressing that it hasn't been available before, rather than mentioning the distant possibility of it becoming non-available again.
  23. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I must apologise for my lack of work here. Uni and work has overtaken my life, and I cannot dedicate as much time as I was able to previously. If there are any German/English speakers, please might I implore you to participate because this truly is a worthwhile document.
  24. Fleischmann Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I'll try to hold the front in your absence, then..what exactly is yet untranslated?
  25. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    @brisanonb no need to apologise, thanks a thousand times for the work you have done so far.

    @Fleischmann everything from question 15 onwards, I also think some of the suggestions for question 14 (see posts above) haven't been checked yet, but these aren't as important. Also consider that there's a complete version from TrevAnon, which might serve as a basis for translation, it's an automatic translation, over which s/he went once more to correct mistakes.
    Thanks a lot for the work you're doing. I'll see to it, that I'll do more translation work once again, when there's time and other requirements are fulfilled as well.
  26. Fleischmann Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Alright, I'll be on it..
  27. cardanon Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I could take a stab at translating short passages. I have a number of years of high school and college German as well as German grandparents who spoke it fluently. I would probably be quite slow at translation but I understand grammar enough to suss out what's being said (with the help of a good German/English dictionary. PM me if that sounds like it would help.
  28. Fleischmann Member

  29. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Here is the English document I have made so far whilst working. This includes all of Indeedindeed's suggestions.
    MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

    I am going to quickly punch this into an incomplete draft first half of the "print" doc for everyone to salivate over.
  30. Ilse Hruby Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Hi :text: and:reading:,

    I suggest to use "OT Levels" instead of "OT Stages" in the text from "Question 9" and "Question 12". And also "For level OT III" instead of "For stage OT III".

    I know, in German we use "OT-Stufen", but in English I never saw that they were called "OT-Stages".

    Operation Clambake present: OT Levels & Confidential Material Summary List

    Have fun and Thank you for this great Job on this translation!! :applause::applause::applause:

  31. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Thanks a lot for your offer. There's a link to the current state of the translation:
    posting #69 by brisanonb. I think this includes the first 14 questions as of yet.
    There should also be a file with an automated translation by trevanon somewhere in this thread, he went over the whole document to correct mistakes by the auto translation, but I can't find it in this thread anymore. I believe it used to be on the first page as an attachement as there's also dialogue about zip and txt formats there.

    Sure, just join the fun in this thread. The idea is that you can either make drafts for parts that haven't been translated yet (so anything from question 15 on) or make suggestions for corrections of already translated stuff by quoting what part you'd like to see changed, why and how. Same procedure if you got remarks, but no exact idea with what to replace it, that's fine as well, someone else might.
  32. TrevAnon Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    I think all attached files have been dropped from because the admins decided to go to MegaUpload. I tried upload my document (the raw translation) there (cannot find if the admins have done this themselves) but I seem to do something wrong. :sad:

    I still have the document, and maybe some other anons have it too (indeedindeed?). Please pm me a mailaddress so I can e-mail the document there.
  33. Re: "Das System Scientology"

    my email for the current document is or you can also send it to Attention Lawrence

    I will talk with the German person and get their advice on when they can/might join the thread. Also I will be off line until Sept 2 before i myself can rejoin again.


  34. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    here's as a ressource -and possible starting point- the corrected auto-translation from TrevAnon from question 15 onwards. Like I said, the current version up to and including question 14 is on Megaupload as a doc linked to in posting #69 of this thread. So here comes this ressource, because it apparently got lost when attachements were dropped.

    So what remains on the to do list now? Translation from question 15 onwards, correcting and checking this with the original with regards to content and correct translation and then go to the fine-tuning of the entire document: re-checking, layout etc.

  35. TrevAnon Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    @indeedindeed: I already sent my raw translation to Lawrence.

    Should have made a remark about that here, I understand now.
  36. TrevAnon Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Lawrence just confirmed: "We are going to join the effort on the team translation sometime after Sept 6." :flowers:

    I look forward to seeing the results! :woot:
  37. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    very nice. I'll probably be able to do more about this effort in the beginning of september, too. Either way, this will get done in the foreseeable future and that's good to know.
  38. brisanonb Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    My uni load has lightened up quite a bit in the past few days (mid-semester exams are completed). I'd be happy to try to tackle one segment. Maybe I might start near the end with the icky mess of references - which are simultaneously short and simple, and no doubt mind-numbing :)

  39. indeedindeed Member

    Re: "Das System Scientology"

    Glad you're back! I don't know what the situation in general is like, but I intend to do a first draft of 15 within the next week. I'll post it when I'm done.
    It's probably a good idea to do something near the end. I don't know whether anyone is working at it, but in principle we're expecting some cavalry in the future to ride in from factnet hills.

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