Marc Headley v. CSI: Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

if they're being sent by a law firm threatening legal action, they can be used to get said lawyers disbarred. i hope you saved a bunch of them. bring 'em to an attorney and ask what you can do to get back at the cult.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

From what I see non of their paperwork holds weight, unless they file for protection. If it's supposed to be a church it's not supposed to have as many workers as it has, and it shouldn't be billing anyone for services aka mass, (no church does that, and you can use the word Church against them... think about it.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

No. Sending bills for some old action, doesn't extend the statute of limitations. The time period usually starts at the event... sometimes from the time you could reasonably have learned about the event.

The ongoing violation is CofS's demands for payment on an illegal debt.

I recommend you write them a letter and state that their debt is illegal, to cease sending you such demands, and if they send you one more letter you will be bringing the matter to your attorney for handling as a claim of harassment. And your statute of limitations period starts from the last time they harassed you. So each demand letter they send you, starts a new time period running.

Second recommendation: If they continue to send you letters, do contact an attorney to send CofS a cease or desist letter.

That should handle the matter.

And if the demands start up again months or years after they stop -- because some new boob is on the post and doesn't know that they should not bill you -- then be sure to send a copy of your earlier attorney's letter to the new boob.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Hi Larry, thanks for posting this here and at the other forums/boards. This is a terrific case and I am so happy Barry Van Sickle took it on. I knew there were 4 original potential claimants & I believe that others are contacting Mark Headley, who recently wrote in an OCMB thread:

"If anyone reading this from the sidelines thinks that they too might have had some rights that were violated, you are probably right. You may have rights you did not even know about. Any people seriously interested in this can write to lordxenu@blownforgood.com . You must provide your full name and details regarding your employment history. If it appears that your rights might have been violated, you will be given additional information on what you might do about it. Until next time... BFG"

Here's hoping more contact him, and that the current case gos well. It's about time someone tackled the cult on this issue!

ml, Mary McConnell

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

I want to make love to this thread.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

This is very significant,indeed, it opens the door for many ( if not all) ex-members to get out and recieve at least, some, of the time and money they have invested back. EPIC WIN...can't say it any better! However, beware, now Sci delaying tactics and damage control begans, full force. I believe a good tactic would be identical filings in several other states and citys, lets keep them as busy as possible. The truth will set you free!

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

This is a very significant lawsuit, it, indeed, opens the door to many ex-Sci's who would now have the possibility of getting at least some of the time and money they invested, back! Epic Win.........Of course, we must be prepared for Sci's delaying tactics and damage control. I think a good move would be to replicate this filing in many other citys and states, filing at the same time, would be a very smart move. "The truth will set you free!"

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Epic Win!!!! We need to file dozens of these throughout the country! Lets keep them real busy!

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

EPIC..EPIC WIN. We need to get dozens ( hundreds?) of these suits filed in several, different citys and states. This gives all Scientologists a chance to re-coup for all their years of labor for this criminal org! This would definately spell "the end" ! Get them where it hurts the most $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

And it would be nice if they all could somehow be seen in court on the same day, or on consecutive days. Spread the cult lawyers thin, or have them rack up the miles...

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Hope this information is being posted on all the boards that ex-Scientologists visit.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Sounds like a good question. I bet a well informed lawyer would be able to answer.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

BUMP

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

The paper itself is landfiill, but if Law and Order has any validity McCoy seems to get things in past the SoL because some overt act--like demanding money in fulfillment of a illegal debt--extends the limitations.

I may be completely wrong. It's happened before.

Nah, nothing like that. The letters come from some scilon office at HGB.

Well, that's why I posted. If true, it makes it easier to get people on board a class action suit.

Thanks for the responses.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Report them for attempted extortion?

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

I don't know about the ongoing creditor demands causing extention of the statute of limitations. However, in this thread

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/299-...t-again-cofs-human-trafficking-why-not-36535/

I found the new (Jan 2009) Calif law about Human Trafficking to be of interest. It DOES allow for extension of the statute of limitations.

Let's take an example here:

Person is in Sea Org. Person escapes. Person is traumatized and separated hostily from their family and friends. Person is repeatedly sent demands for an illegal debt; which debt was part of the Human Trafficking matter. Person continues to be mentally traumatized each month by the bill in the mail. Person is now "disabled" because of the earlier Human Trafficking situation. Statute of limitations period for civil claim on Human Trafficking AND for past wages and harrassment (the billings) is suspended BECAUSE of the ongoing billings.

If you don't "get" the Human Trafficking angle, PM me and I'll explain it.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

AND MY AXE!

If there's anything a britfag can do...

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Here's a possible strategy. Make a small partial payment on the "freeloaders debt" notice. Pay in a form that IS recorded and traceable, like a check. Make sure the payment instrument identifies exactly what you are paying on.
They cash the check, you get the record, they are documented as continuing the relationship.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

Oh lawd, is dat sum BFG9000?

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

That so doesn't sound like a good idea. By paying it, partial or not, it means the person agrees to the debt.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations

I agree with your point but not your conclusion. Whether or not the person pays anything, the debt itself is illegal. The second suit BFG posted today specifically goes after the illegality and coersion involved with "freeloaders debt" under statutes prohibiting human trafficking. If the debt is found to be illegal in a court of law, then any other payer has standing (only if the statute of limitations hasn't expired). The payer would be due their money back with interest and possibly other remedies. Being a victim of human trafficking at the hands of the scientology enterprise seems an easy qualifier for restitution and punitive damages.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Also, if it's a SEAORG contract for a BILLION YEARS, it is an utterly unenforceable under the law and therefore brings the validity of the entire document / debt into question. If the contract is declared invalid, then in the USA the matter of "unjust enrichment" comes into play and Co$ would have to demonstrate that you received "a thing of value" and to establish that value.

Way I read it, figure the court to establish a Pyrric victory with any adverse judgment. Say about tree fitty or the price of a cuppa coffee at Starbucks.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

One contract which is simply an "idea" does not make other contracts invalid. There are way more "contracts" than the billion year one.

Your 'law' comments are way off the mark. Don't give incorrect legal advice!

Lurk moar. Here's a start:
ResearchTheTruth.com Research The Truth about the Church of Scientology

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

I'm sorry, which part of "brings the whole contract into question," and "if the contract is declared invalid" did you construe to mean "if one clause of a contract is invalid then the entire thing is absolutely against the law?" In reality however, if the contracted "service" is slavery, then the entire contract is for an illegal purpose and holds ZERO weight at all.

Indeed, IF the contract is declared entirely unenforceable, under the UCC the issue of "unjust enrichment," from my limited understanding, is the fall back recourse where the Judge is left to divide the baby.

Read it liek it's written, not for what you want it to mean pl0x.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Do you know if copies of these documents are available online:

- Sea Org Fitness Board Questionnaire

- Sea Org Fitness Board Certificate

/Edit: also, - the Sea Org document "agreement to join the RPF" (sorry, don't know the name of the doc)

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

A court will weigh all the evidence, not a single contract. There have been many contracts signed by each Sea Org member. A contract is a single thing, not the sum of all the contracts and verbal agreements made between CofS and an SO member.

You see, you've brought us back to the subject of Human Trafficking, because that leads to presenting evidence of and making judgement on the fact that Corporate Scientology is engaging in labor human trafficking --that CofS intentionally "contracted" with illegal and unconscionable contracts and agreements for the purpose of receiving cheap labor (or free labor) from people against their rights. As you say "unjust enrichment".

If it is found that Corporate Scientology is engaging in Human Trafficking, then all bets are off (as you say "brings the whole contract into question").

Seems like you intended the word "contract" to mean the sum of all contracts and agreements.

It doesn't mean that. If you want people to understand what you mean, then please select words that can be understood by others to mean what you mean -- in other words, both parties agree on the meaning of the word. You can't invent a new meaning, or have a wrong meaning, and expect other people to understand what you're saying.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

'Scuse me? Don't use me to justify your trying to steer the conversation in the direction you want it to go. If you wish to broaden the topic beyond what the gai who kept getting the bills who felt like he still owed in some way asked, then feel free. If you get a court to bring in the slavery idea without dismissing it, a thing I think is BEING TESTED RIGHT NAO but as yet who knows, then by all means let's turn it into a tort from Hell.

Thought that was part of the point of what this was trying to test, but feel free to preach. It isn't as though I disagree at all, but it's a matter of contracts and UCC and not torts and criminal law if you're asking 'what happens if $cilons sue me for Freeloader Debt?"

$cilons, if they sued, would do so under a theory of contract law. If I'm not mistaken in my very low level legal understanding as you're so quick to point out, this suit is a tort (civil action) which seeks financial compensation and an injunction to prevent the recurrence of certain events.

Go ahead and flame all you want, but it seems pretty silly to me. I'm happy the case is finally attempting to be made out here in the open, but I won't hold my breath anticipating the outcome given the jurisdiction (LA) and $cilon court / CJ penetration.

Here's hopin though!

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

I've never seen this leaked. Doesn't mean it hasn't been, though.

An SO Fitness Board is a decision written on a paper. It is not a form, nor a certificate. Are the AAO appeals by CofS using the term "Fitness Board Certificate"? If so, then CofS is simply trying to use terminology that they think would be understood by the AAO staff.

Fitness Boards either are "turndowns" or "approved". Here is a sample "turndown" which is the closest you'll find to a "template".

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

re ^ this. What's the composition of a "fitness board" and does it have anything to do with physical health?

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Agreed. I'm not an attorney either. I think the legal term you've been discussing is related to:
Severable Contract n. an agreement which is made up of several separate contracts between the same parties, such as series of sales, shipments, or different pieces of equipment. Therefore, breach of one of the separate (severable) contracts is not a breach of the remainder of the over-all contract and is not an excuse for the other party to refuse to honor any devisable part of the contract which has not been breached.

I haven't seen any scilon contracts with severability clauses. Even if they exist, they mean nothing if the substantive terms of the original contract are illegal.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Francie, thanks for the sample Fitness Board doc, that clears up some confusions for me.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but this seems to be related info.

Sort of, but it seems pretty important. Without approval from Fitness Board, foreign Sea Org staff will be denied Religious Worker R-1 visas:

http://www.uscis.gov/err/C1 - Religious Worker/Decisions_Issued_in_2005/AUG162005_04C1101.pdf

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

It could be. The Sea Org recruit is not told what the full qualifications are to become a Sea Org member. He or she is asked simple questions such as:

1) Do you have any debts which would keep you from joining?
2) Do you have any persons antagonistic to Scientology or spiritual or mental health?
3) Have you ever taken LSD?
4) Have you ever been convicted of a crime?

There have been numerous brochures/flyers scanned and disclosed online which show these simple questions. These are the only ones that the typical recruiter will require of the person.

After the person arrives, he then has to fill out the Life History Questionnaire (also leaked online somewhere). This is a lengthy, in depth inquisition into your life (past and present) on all levels, including the most intimate.

After arriving, the person does the EPF where he or she does 5 courses. (List of courses leaked online somewhere.)

Near the end of their EPF, a committee (the Fitness "Board") will meet and go over all the paperwork of the recruit. I've never even heard of a Fitness Board meeting with the person. It's just a paperwork project.

If the person is accepted, they get a formal Fitness Board Approval letter and it is filed in their Ethics files. If the person is not acceptable, they will get a formal Fitness Board Turndown letter stating roughly why they are not qualified at this time and what they can do to become more qualified.

There are no guarantees that doing the program will make you qualified. The whole thing is a very subjective process. If they know you have cash in the bank and they think they can squeeze you for some of it, they may "require" you to get some "special auditing" to make you more qualified.

In the case of the fitness board turndown which I displayed, a health reason was given as their reason to disqualify. Step 1 included handling the physical reason PLUS an auditing program to address it.

When someone leaves the Sea Org, they are supposed to do a Fitness Board Turndown. This doesn't always get done.

Sounds like CofS had been filing for the immigrant adjustment for a beneficiary in the USA on a non-immigrant visa (R-1). Since the first go-round of an R-1 is good for 2 years (or 2.5 or 3; I don't feel like looking it up right now) then CofS must be filing for special immigrant religious worker visas immediately upon getting the person in the country. Jesus! If someone can't get through the EPF in a few weeks (the most I've heard is 3 months) then they should be offloaded anyway. Imagine how slow this person must be going if you got ahold of an APPEAL DECISION for a special immigrant religious worker visa petition that had gone through the process and been denied!

Process: Application for immigrant visa. File it. Decision returned = Denied! Fill out appeal forms. File them. Decision made and returned = (That's what you're quoting from, OTBT).

That must have taken months. Most service centers are taking about 6 months before you hear anything more than a "receipt" for your application. And the person didn't get thru their EPF and get their Fitness Board Approval yet?

Sheesh! Offload 'em!

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Having read a lot of these documents, the vast majority fail even to be contracts. A "freeloader debt" is a perfect example. There is absolutely no way any court in any country on earth would enforce one of those. For example, they lack consideration. If they are for courses which are professed by Scientology to have nothing but spiritual value, and for which the purchase price is claimed to be a "donation," they can't turn around and then collect a debt based on a contract the only benefit to the Scientologist of which is services of no monetary value at all. Both parties to a contract must receive a benefit, or it isn't a contract.

Another major problem with most of these contracts is their sheer unconscionability. They are grotesque, totally one-sided documents that make credit cardholder agreements look like models of fairness. It would be against public policy to enforce the vast majority of these things, and in most cases, the objectionable contractual provisions dominate the contracts to such an extent that it's probable they're nonseverable, i.e. instead of just throwing out the bad terms, they would tend to invalidate the entire contract.

They have yet to sue over a freeloader debt and, as far as I know, they don't even threaten to sue. All they do is not let you take more courses until you pay them off.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

As far as I know, this is true. They will, however, pester you continuously to pay off the freeloader's debt.

If you are ex-staff with a freeloader's debt, scientology will not allow you to do any scientology 'services', which are primarily

- receiving auditing, and
- receiving training

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Until you have paid off your freeload debt, you are in "lower conditions". You may not go to one of their events. It's doubtful you could even go to one of their [bogus] Sunday Services. You cannot have auditing or training.

You MAY, however, purchase books and lectures, and donate to the latest building fund project, or to Super Power, or to the IAS. You get no benefit for your donations. And you may be pestered to spend money with CofS just like any other Scientologist gets pestered.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Shouldn't we be shopping the links of Marc Headly v CSI and his wife's suit to websites and blogs that deal exclusively with labor law issues to get more exposure?

Edit: have spent the last few hours sending out Marc and Claire's links to their lawsuits against CSI to various employment law journals, policy groups and blogs. I would encourage other Anons to do the same if you can.

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

FEB 18, 2009 UPDATE:

The complaints have been modified to include some new issues.

Here are the amended complaints that were filed today.


Marc Amended Complaint - Fullscreen


Amended COMPLAINT - Claire - Fullscreen

Both will be served this week.

Expect to hear moar!

Until next time...
BFG

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

I read both complaints and this is absolutely amazing stuff.
I should imagine that it this is successful it will start off a snowball of other people filing complaints and wanting compensation.
I for one would be one of them.
Anybody else considering it?

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Beautiful. Fucking beautiful!

Re: New Lawsuit filed re organized scientology's labor violations: Marc Headley v. CS

Seconded. Let's hope this is only the beginning of things.

For too long, Scientology has used the legal system to its own advantage to ride roughshod over even the most basic of human rights - now it's time for the law to fight back.

Incidently, I wonder whether any of the recently leaked "Rons journal 68" talking about how they 'respect' human rights might be of use here? Showing current Scientologists how much Miscavige is working against what LRH said might wake some of them up.