UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

And they were right. The dominos have been slowly topping since the 90s. It's just happening faster now.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Eric Pickles reminds me of one of the Cenobites - Butterball.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Go to Guardian article, find bit in quotes, highlight, edit, copy.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Councils urged to avoid tax breaks for Scientology - News - Gainsborough Standard

etc

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Just incredible win that will directly cost the cult millions.

Indirectly, the less loss is even greater, in loss of good will, bad PR and setting a precedent for other countries.

The cult's ass has been kicked in the UK. Please leave some table scraps for us in the USA, won't you?

Pickle and Sweeney show the spirit of Churchill is alive.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Hold your horses. Yes, it is a victory because it indicates what can be achieved. But Pickles is a politician (think "dishonest, slithering snake"). He is saying this to make the government look good during times where such cuts are being made they are literally snatching the food out of the mouths of babes. But this is no edict to local authorities to stop these rates relief. It is "urging" in other words "we don't want this shit to stick on central government". There is no indication of any official instructions or recommendations on this and you are free to check on the "Communities and Local Government" website to check. Pickles must know that the clams will take this all the way to the Supreme Court to hang onto their money and the respect it brings but the government has done nothing to assure local authorities that they will back them up for any legal costs.

I think this has to be addressed by Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition in the form of a question to the Prime Minister during prime minister's question time.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

One thing it means is that the question I asked Mark Field (MP for Cities of London and Westminster) will need a lot less preamble in the future. I had to begin by explaining what COSRECI was (and wasn't) and how the cult traded under that name to avoid paying business rates.

Henceforth, I think we can simply refer to the Pickles recommendation, and ask "what has the council done to implement this recommendation?"

The question still needs to be asked - but we don't run the risk of sounding like loony conspiracy theorists anymore.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

I very much doubt Pickles has any legal right to make such 'instructions' without a law change. As for their website, it's all over the press, and web archived. It's not like there's any question about what he said. As to why he said it, I think it's because he and his Whitehall lawyer were pissed-off at being made to look stupid with their advice to CoL when they didn't have all the facts (because CoL 'forgot' to mention the CC decision of 1999), combined with increased awareness of the situation after doing a bit of research.

You can guarantee that someone from Pickles' office got on the phone the the CC to talk over the decision and make sure the 2006 legislation wouldn't affect it. Plus that they knew which councils gave rebates etc.

His department has already told us what needs doing in their very helpful FOI response: Judicial Review. Regrettably, because it takes months to get a handle on the whole picture of the cult, a few hundreds of thousands lost by councils as a result of iffy decisions is not going to get to PMQ. I consulted to a govt agency that squandered 600 million quid of taxpayers money, they made PMQ three (maybe four times) (wasn't my fault - honest). Sure, if you can get some kid to run away from Saint Hill and allege kidnapping and imprisonment, then maybe...

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

You need to ask before that "Has the council received any recommendations from central government about this from official channels?".

This is "what's new" coming from Pickles organisation. Do you see "Scientology and rates relief" mentioned there?

http://www.communities.gov.uk/corporate/newsroom/news/

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Also remember that it is also a statement to the public, and that the public can subsequently call him out on his own words if local government still sits on their hands. That public includes...ahem... a certain few knowledgable people on the subject who have a pile of dox and the will to take action. I really don't think that Pickles wants some member of the public to embarass him by getting a judicial review over someting that she should have been able to deal with in the first place. So the message to Pickles would be, in the words of Tom Cruise, "either you're on board or you're not on board"

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

I don't think Butterball is on board at all and we need a question asked about this during Prime Minister's Question Time.

http://content9.flixster.com/poll/74/7471_std.jpg

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/torydiary/images/2008/05/29/pickles.jpg

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

You don't know.
You also don't know what even caused him to come out and stoke this particular fire in the first place. For the time being we'll just have to wait and see if he's going throw some more fuel on it.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Some info from the thread about the TodayTonight programme airing today in Australia (in about 1hr15mins from now at 6:30pm Sydney local time)


ref: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-m...nother-report-19-10-10-a-72633/2/#post1338906

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

YAY! Let's all try and piss off and spit in the face of the guy who gave us our latest big win. WTF?

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

There is no substance to this "win". There would be something on their website if it had any substance at all. It is just a popular gesture to deflect criticism from the government.

Edit: I just wrote to the Guardian about this.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Roland, you don't have to post and act on every single micro-thought that your brain meters out. Try gathering them together first.
I'm sure Pickles could think of many popular and effective ways of "deflecting criticism from the government" if he really wanted to but, in the grand scheme of things, the issue of scientology's rates relief in a handful of local authorities wouldn't be one of them. If he was doing as a popularist then he missed the boat that passed, over two weeks ago, shortly after the Panorama documentary aired and their subsequent article on the cult's business rates.
What you are doing is using rhetoric as a basis to ask if something is just rhetoric. Try and think of better reasons why you think he might have brought the subject up in the first place and why there is no apparent official directive on this very specific issue.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

It is easier and quicker and avoids wasting time in useless speculation to get a journalist to ask this. That's why I wrote to the Guardian. Now I can sit back and wait for that answer rather than wondering about it.
--------------------------
Hi Xxxxxxx,

I read the story in the Guardian regarding Pickles "urging" local authorities to stop giving tax breaks to the cult of Scientology but there seems to be no substance to this for any action to be taken. There is nothing on the Communities and Local Government web site about this as yet and any local authority would have great difficulty taking away these tax breaks because the cult would probably take it all the way to the High Courts and were they to win then the local authorities could be faced with a legal bill of 250,000 GBP plus. This will have to be paid from their limited budget so they can not afford to take the risk. It is easier for them to continue to grant mandatory non-domestic rates relief because of this otherwise their domestic ratepayers might have to face further hardship. That is unless central government have given assurances that they will help with the costs of a legal defense if it came to expensive litigation. I see that nowhere in evidence so I am tending to conclude that this was just a publicity stunt on the part of the government to deflect possible criticism of themselves over this issue and to shift the blame and expense onto local government.

Roland Rashleigh-Berry

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Good luck with that....and I'm not being sarcastic. However don't expect journalists to be as idealistic as you are.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Time to tax the tyrant. Public opinion of organized Scientology seems to be putting needed pressure on the right nerves endings. It would be nice to see this type of activist thinking happening in Amerika where we could apply some more modern kinds of test for charities. There is an opportunity to write a policy letter to your representative on a better approach to dealing with the abuse of tax dollars funneled to mafia organizations like the Church of Scientology. Giving the religiousness and macro cult personality going on in Amerika I perceive enormous amount work to be done in communicating the need for a change. People need to be able to understand why government should not remain idle in the arena of corrupt organizations. I don't see any constitutionality problems but I see often religious organization playing up the idea of government take over of the church of some bogus idea like that.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

In the US - isn't property tax, sales tax etc a State issue? Perhaps the focus needs to be on Florida and California politicians in the first instance?

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

I got a reply and I did think from reading it that the person was as idealistic as I am. That's why I am not going to post the reply here or anywhere else.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

right - that's why this is a really big win.

- WT.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Roland, am getting more than a little fed up of this, your frequent speculation over seemly everything. (Alleged Camden VS TCR Sci's court stuff, now stuff about MP Eric Pickles VS Sci's)

The bloody 'carrot dangling' "Oh wrote to so + so person / paper, got a reply but not gonna tell you what they said." QUIT IT WILL you FFS thanks.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

i came

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

This document is a very interesting read. It was written in 2004 before the Charities Act 2006 and contains some of the thinking behind it. Note Neville Estates v Madden.

Joint Committee on the Draft Charities Bill - Minutes of Evidence

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Then they run the risk that the local governments will try to shift the blame and criticism back again by pointing this out.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Beacuse there might be a court case. Look at the thinking of those drafting the Charities Act 2006 as I posted a link to above. They are expecting and even wanting new court cases to clarify the definition of "religion" in charity law.

MEANING OF RELIGION

3. Some have suggested that there should be a definition of "religion" in the new legislation. The meaning of "religion" in charity law is unclear. Despite other dicta in both English[18] and Commonwealth[19] case law that it may be used in a broader sense, the Charity Commission have recently[20] adopted Dillon J's dictum in the South Place Ethical Society[21] case to the effect that religion requires both belief in a deity and the worship of that deity. But there are obvious exceptions. The adherents of some faiths, eg Jains and Buddhists,[22] are not required to believe in a deity and yet those belief systems are accepted as religions.

4. The advantage of not having a statutory definition is that it enables the law to continue to develop from case to case. In other words, Dillon J's 1980 definition was not the first, and need not be regarded as the last word on the subject. A future decision of the courts, the Charity Commission or indeed of the proposed Charities Appeal Tribunal may assist in clarifying the essential characteristics of religion in a way which matches more closely the needs and aspirations of the 21st century.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/329-.../scientologys-us-tax-exempt-properties-71490/

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

As people of the Internet, we expect everything to happen at the speed of light. This is going to move at the speed of politics. If it requires a court case, it'll move even slower: at the speed of law. Don't be downhearted if you don't see instant results. It doesn't mean the cult wrigled out of it.

Equally, Ropa inte hej förräns du har kommit över bäcken. Above all, remember the original Anonymous Message to Scientology - we always knew we were in this for the long haul.

As I said before, now would be a very good time to write to your MP. If you can't manage a complex description of Scientology's tax dodging so far, maybe just write and say "thanks" for the Pickles thing, and that you agree with it.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Yeah, the cow is definitely on the ice for Scientology.

They really do have shit in the blue cupboard, or I've planted my last potato.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Don't forget to thank them for standing by the local councils in case Scientology tries to continue to collect their danegeld with legal threats...

(Heh. Okay, say that you hope they'll support the local councils.)

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Goodbye Pickles and thanks for all the onions.

I've spent 13 years working on this and never gotten so close nor been so disappointed.

We don't need Butterball and Pinhead any more.

Goodbye to both of you!

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Thanks for the compilation, Sponge!

FIRE ALL HARPOONS!!!11!
GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO! GO!

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

What compilation?

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

I don't know. Maybe it's the symbolic thing in the OP of posting every regional news outlet link to the same Press Association story that broke on the friday.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

ARGH, yea of cause.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

The compilation of press. It's the OP. I appreciate all the work that went into providing that here.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Please change your Avatar to one of Veruca Salt
and add this in the location field: "I want an Oompa-Loompa and I want it now!"

What is wrong with you? Calm down.

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

Oh right. No sweat. It's OCD. I was off my meds. .

Re: UK Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to scientology. WINRAR!!

And after you're calm, please refrain from leaderfaggotry.