wins legal victory, loses public image war

Triumph · Aug 7, 2010

wins legal victory, loses public image war

Scientology wins legal victory, loses public image war

A Scientology legal victory on August 5th might not actually be cause for celebration within the Church. The court protected Scientology's freedom from inquiry into human trafficking charges, as well as the church's right to deny fair labor practices to its ministers. Meanwhile, the alleged abuses themselves, which the church once tried to hide, have again become a matter of public record.

For Scientology, winning the right to continue these behaviors is considered "victory."

Other practices that made it into court records include:

* Sleep and food deprivation of Sea Org employees;
* Heavy and demeaning manual labor as punishment;
* Screening and censorship of employee communications;
* Threats of job loss for those who refuse abortions;
* Physical and procedural restrictions on the ability of Sea Org employees to leave;
* Church-enforced "Disconnection" (utter rejection) of former Sea Org employees by their families; and
* Harsh discipline against Sea Org employees who voice a desire to leave.

read more
Scientology wins legal victory, loses public image war

Dialog Ireland
Religious institutions are exempt from human trafficking laws?

Apparently so if Judge Fischer’s ruling is anything to go by. The full summary judgement of the ruling is here (40KB PDF). The following quote is the entirety of reasoning given by the court concerning the question of human trafficking, and is well worth reading:

document

In essence the above is claiming that laws regarding human trafficking do not apply to religious institutions. Moreover, according to this ruling “…Defendants [Chruch of Scientology] here represent that the challenged conduct was doctrinally motivated”.

To have the Church of Scientology not only admit that such conduct occurred, but that they claim such conduct is protected under the ‘Freedom of Religion’ clause is also staggering. That the court granted this claim is staggering. Headley has already indicted her desire to appeal the ruling, and it would seem she has grounds to do so. In rulings such as the above there are two components. There are ‘findings of fact’ and ‘findings of law’. The former is fairly obvious, while the latter is the courts judgement of how applicable law applies to those findings of fact. In the current case, the court has determined findings of fact indicating that plaintiff was subjected to the abuses she has alleged. The court simply ruled those abuses irrelevant when applied to a religious institution.

The Church of Scientology has claimed, in previous court cases, its conduct to be ‘religious expression’ deserving of constitutional protection. Some courts have disagreed, and in some cases in very strong terms. From Wollersheim v Church of Scientology 1989:

One would hope that the notion a religious institution be given free reign to perform human trafficking be struck down on appeal. Employment Division et al v Smith US Supreme Court may have summed it up best – “It is a parade of horribles because it is horrible to contemplate that federal judges will regularly balance against the importance of general laws the significance of religious practice.”

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/religious-institutions-are-exempt-from-human-trafficking-laws/

The Imminent Frame
Scientology given full free-exercise exemptions by John D. Boy

A federal court threw out two court cases brought forward by an ex-Scientologist couple, the Headleys, against the Church of Scientology, accusing the organization of labor violations, forced abortions, and human trafficking. Dale S. Fischer, a judge on the U. S. District Court, Central District of California, argued that Scientology is protected by the First Amendment’s free exercise clause, putting the practices the organization is alleged to engage in beyond the scrutiny of the court.

http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2010/08/08/scientology-free-exercise/

Human trafficking case dismissals highlight "Ministerial Exception" defense for churches

The legal victory won by the church, therefore, was not that the accusations of the Headleys were untrue, but that with the exception of physical abuse, the other church practices toward Sea Org members are beyond the reach of government courts because they are religious practices.

http://www.examiner.com/x-8922-Skepticism-Examiner~y2010m8d8-Ministerial-Exception

Scientology Wins Major Court Ruling
http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/12/scientology-wins-major-court-ruling/

MailerDemon · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

>examiner

eh

Proxima Centauri · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

I’ve added this to the Wiki. Thanks for giving us the information.

I'm just wondering what those Scilons will do next. Will they declare everyone who criticises their religious practises suppressive?

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Waiting for the main christian blogs to run with this.
Even though the Headlys lost the case,pending appeal of course.
They still struck a heavy blow.

RightOn · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

it's a start!

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Comments are open,Sci's have started posting.

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Most organizations would consider the practices themselves to be a failure, and they would take steps to persuade the world that real change was taking place to prevent further abuses. For Scientology, winning the right to continue these behaviors is considered "victory."

Well no, publically they just deny it, saying that Gold base is a "workers paradise".

Triumph · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

"its a matter of public record" they abuse staff, yep.

remind them of that.

it is will be huge loss for them.in the long run.
they have been "public relations buttraped" before "because of a matter of public record "dispite winning a court case

the cult is desperate to point and say see we won. they have sheeple to keep down on the farm.

quoting Tommy Davis "Scientology Wins" Ms. Davis is wishful of thinking (full of sheep dip)
to Ms Davis a win means they can skate by for a little while longer...running the con.

I LoLed when they put out that press release

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Could use backup over there.

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Sci poster has admitted something we already knew.
That there are only 5000 sea org world wide.
Which if you do sci math,about 600 left.

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Anonymous;1302850 said:

Well no, publically they just deny it, saying that Gold base is a "workers paradise".

Been done before:

Theresienstadt concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To the outside it was presented...as a model Jewish settlement, but in reality it was a concentration camp.

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

This makes it difficult to stay on the fence. Strengthens my inner revolutionists resolve. A toast with caek to laying the smackdown!

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

The sci's are posting again,get in there.

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

I'm there.

kitfisto · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Ah , there's the silver lining . Also , Tommy sounded like a complete dickhead in his response to the verdict .

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

It's not about public image any more since a year or two ago, or even earlier. It's about the desperation to keep brain washed scilons in. They have to find some excuse to say win, even though it's a total failure to outsiders. Eg, the BBC incident must be still a pubic win to scilons, even though Rinder got out after that.

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Bump for enturbulation and humanity

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Penn and Teller get it.

“Scientology also,” Jillette said. “We haven’t done Scientology because Showtime didn’t want us to, but also because we want to do something people learn something from, and I’ve never met anyone who has believed that Scientology is anything but bullshit.”

CCI: ‘Penn & Teller: 35 Years Of Magic & BS!’ « Spinoff Online – Covering TV, Film and Entertainment News Daily

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

this was posted...
if its real this is sublime..
if its a troll..eh..still good..

Joeanna says:
I am sick to death of the lie's,and can't do it any more.
I have been disconnected from my mother and i miss her.
I can't do this anymore.
August 7, 8:09 PM

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

I had to laugh my ass off at the scilon commenter "BrokeForGood".

I don't know if he realizes the irony of his name. It's a very good one for a scientologist.

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Bump,they just won't let this one go,they are still posting.

Radio Paul · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Anonymous;1302883 said:

Sci poster has admitted something we already knew.
That there are only 5000 sea org world wide.
Which if you do sci math,about 600 left.

5000 for 8 million members! That means there is 1 See Org member for every 1,600 public but I have seen 50 staffers at the DC Org where about 6 Sea Org members. That means there should be at least 9,600 public there! I only see about 10 to 12 LOL

Anonymous · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Radio Paul;1303117 said:

5000 for 8 million members! That means there is 1 See Org member for every 1,600 public but I have seen 50 staffers at the DC Org where about 6 Sea Org members. That means there should be at least 9,600 public there! I only see about 10 to 12 LOL

You mean you somehow missed nearly 10,000 people coming in during the org's "morning rush" ?

Triumph · Aug 7, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Radio Paul;1303117 said:

5000 for 8 million members! That means there is 1 See Org member for every 1,600 public but I have seen 50 staffers at the DC Org where about 6 Sea Org members. That means there should be at least 9,600 public there! I only see about 10 to 12 LOL

Louanne is slipping she only mentioned bigotry once and the hate crimes of anonymous twice

Louanne is quick to toss out stats like that..then chastise you for not doing your research.

She comes from the Danny Masterson school of PR...everything ever sad about Scientology is all lies.

Triumph · Aug 9, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Dialog Ireland portion of the Article was added to OP
Religious institutions are exempt from human trafficking laws?

Religious institutions are exempt from human trafficking laws? « Dialogue Ireland

Scientology's whole argument in this case came down to laws regarding human trafficking do not apply to religious institutions.and their conduct was doctrinally motivated”.

In the court documents Scientology lawyers not only admitted that such conduct occurred, but that they claim such conduct is protected under the ‘Freedom of Religion’
digg
http://digg.com/world_news/Religious_institution_are_exempt_from_human_trafficking_law

Triumph · Aug 9, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Human trafficking case dismissals highlight "Ministerial Exception" defense for churches
August 8, by Charles McAlpin

On August 5th, 2010, Central California U.S. District Court Judge Dale S. Fischer dismissed charges that had been filed against the Church of Scientology by two former members of the church's paramilitary branch, the Sea Org, under the Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act (TVPA). The central battle in the arguments for and against dismissal involved the jurisdiction of a government court in matters that could be considered an expression of religious freedom. Scientology won the battle by persuading the court that the church's alleged actions were covered under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution's religion clauses because of a concept known as "ministerial exception."

According to the decision, the Church of Scientology agreed that the physical abuse charges might legally be pursued by the court, but that everything else fell under the ministerial exception. It was also significant to the court that Marc Headley, although aware of limitations on his ability to leave when he wanted to, did not define his situation at the time as being held against his will.

The legal victory won by the church, therefore, was not that the accusations of the Headleys were untrue, but that with the exception of physical abuse, the other church practices toward Sea Org members are beyond the reach of government courts because they are religious practices.

read more: comments are open
Human trafficking case dismissals highlight "Ministerial Exception" defense for churches

Anonymous · Aug 9, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

You can show Charlie McAplin the love at

MESkeptic@gmail.com

Examiner bio:

Charlie is a writer, living and working in rural New England. He is a news junkie with a love of science, and he has been an open-minded skeptic for the past 20 years. He writes news and opinion, critically examining various paranormal, political, and popular beliefs, and he also explores why people believe as they do. If you have a story idea, or if you have relevant information on a story Charlie has written about, please feel free to email him.

Triumph · Aug 9, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

comments OUCH!

chuckufarley says:
Scientology's criminality is well documented in thousands of court cases in where Scientology was involved or its members were charged. there is a mountain of evidence, including hundreds of convictions.over the past several decades.

harassment,staking,spying,felonious assault,criminal association,burglary,bribery,destroying evidence,coercion,falsifying evidence,interfering with witness's,libel,filing frivolous lawsuits,interfering with a Witness,espionage,stealing US government documents,false imprisonment, assault, extortion, kidnapping, defamation, invasion of privacy, infliction of emotional distress, and racketeering,tax evasion,involuntary homicide,breach of the public trust,forgery,obstruction of justice,stealing medical records and multiple fraud convictions

along with Criminal conviction of Scientology's highest leaders
it's all part of the public court records

to put it in perspective the Gambino & Gotti Mafia crime families have less convictions

http://www.examiner.com/x-8922-Skepticism-Examiner~y2010m8d8-Ministerial-Exception

Triumph · Aug 12, 2010

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Scientology Wins Major Court Ruling

The Church of Scientology won a major victory in federal court when U.S. District Judge Dale S. Fischer granting summary judgment in two major lawsuits alleging labor law violations, human trafficking and forced abortions. The opinion raises some interesting questions over the deference shown by courts in such disputes.

The Court was unwilling to access “the reasonableness of the methods” used to discipline Sea Org members and to prevent them from leaving. Even Claire Headley’s allegation that she was forced to have two abortions was treated as a matter of religious doctrine since “inquiry into these allegations would entangle the court in the religious doctrine of Scientology and the doctrinally motivated practices of the Sea Org.”

The forced abortion allegation and allegations of being followed and harassed is particularly problematic since such claims involve potential criminal conduct. Clearly a church cannot countenance criminal acts.

The Court brushes aside such allegations as part of a church that Headley joined voluntarily. However, abuse cannot be simply treated as a matter of consent. Indeed, these doctrines have not prevented the Catholic Church from being sued civilly or investigated criminally. The Catholic Church of course admitted that such abuse was not part of its religious tenets. Here, by claiming that such practices were intertwined with their religious beliefs, the Church was able to shutdown the lawsuit.

However, in its final opinion, the Court goes little further than suggesting that harsh punishment, tracking, and threats are all part of what makes Scientology . . . well . . . Scientology.

If Scientology did harass or track former members after they left the Church, it would seem to be a matter outside of the ministerial exception.

the plaintiffs were suing pursuant to the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which the Court found was trumped by the religious elements in the case. That would seem to open a very large hole in the Act for people who claim a religious foundation for their conduct. The ultimate decision, however, turned on the broad application of the ministerial exception as opposed to the language of the statute.

Many years ago I wrote a law review article entitled Laying Hands on Religious Racketeers that discussed the reluctance of courts and prosecutors to enforce secular laws against religious organizations. It may be time for a new law review article on the subject.

This could raise some interesting appellate issues

read entire article here
Scientology Wins Major Court Ruling « JONATHAN TURLEY

Anonymous · Aug 24, 2012

Anonymous said: ↑

Re: wins legal victory, loses public image war

Penn and Teller get it.

“Scientology also,” Jillette said. “We haven’t done Scientology because Showtime didn’t want us to, but also because we want to do something people learn something from, and I’ve never met anyone who has believed that Scientology is anything but bullshit.”

CCI: ‘Penn & Teller: 35 Years Of Magic & BS!’ « Spinoff Online – Covering TV, Film and Entertainment News Daily

He said pretty much the same thing answering the reddit 10 questions

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